Andy: No, as I say, only during the course of a very long trial in the Old Bailey where I answered every question, I gave full evidence and answered every question that was asked of me by a fair number of lawyers and a judge. That was something I would do often, and like anyone else there have been other things in my life that have given that perspective. Coulson replaced Rebekah Wade as editor in 2003. You pull up and the gates open and you know youre going to prison, youre in no doubt that youre going to prison. Downfall of the 'Essex boy done good': Andy Coulson's journey to Downing Street and how his wife stood by him as the hacking trial exposed his infidelity and forced him to sell their 1.65m house. And the only way to deal with it was to take one at a time and that is another common theme that has been coming out in these podcasts, that when you are in crisis, dont try and take control of everything. Andy: Dangers of drug smuggling and all manner of other suggested uses for books. So, youve got inmates there who have been in prison for a very long time. I want to focus on what we dont know, which is obviously the theme of this podcast, and how you handled that crisis point of your life and, of course, the effect that it had on your family. It's only the bloody Stig.This Just In is an online comedy service . But as I said in court, I made a lorry load of mistakes as an editor. Coulson had served as the editor of News of the World from 2003 to 2007, when he Read More Andy: I have, yeah, and weve had that discussion. There was a real kind of internal crisis, funnily enough, at Belmarsh at that moment. In 2005, Andy Coulson was the award-winning editor of the News of the World, presiding over a culture of ruthless exploitation. Youve got parameters but you dont really know because in the end that is obviously in the gift of the judge. I remember reading, after I came out, that I had been released after just five months on good behaviour. I do believe its a muscle and my muscle was very well exercised by the time I found myself dealing with my own. Im a big believer in counselling and therapy and that has helped me enormously, I have to say. And Ive got to be honest with you, it was actually really interesting and quite rewarding work. My brother was there and one of my best pals, Kris, and there was a lot of manly hugging and goodbyes. And then before you know it, I live a way away from London, finally we got in and I had a final meeting with my lawyers. The main thing for me is that bitterness bullet, youve just got to keep dodging it, because bitterness really does send you only one way, it will only ever send you backwards. Andy: Probably a bit of both. How can I do that? Trusted, high impact counsel, campaigns and crisis management for leaders, from Andy Coulson, Jon Steafel, Susan Adams and team. So, in this episode Ill be asking the questions in an attempt to unravel Andys five years of crisis. Jane: So, youve known the power and privilege of being a newspaper editor and advisor to David Cameron. I can tell you that Belmarsh is not a holiday camp by any measure. I know Harvey was, what, 14? I made my case but I obviously didnt succeed with the jury. Andy Coulson arrives at the Old Bailey on July 4, 2014 in London, England. I love a good book, both fiction and non-fiction. But there are a whole bunch of mistakes from a leadership point of view, I was the boss. And that was, youve got to accept where you are. Jane: In his memoir, David Cameron wrote that he was wrong to insist that you were innocent until proven guilty and that he should have removed you in 2010 until the scandal snowballed. Coulson married his wife, Eloise, in 2000. Youre a state-school-educated Essex lad. I often read people saying that it doesnt really matter. And I have some views on what works and what doesnt work in prison, having been inside one for a while, though I do not claim to be an expert by any means, given the length of time I was there. Journalist and political strategist, Andy Coulson was editor of the News of the World from 2003 until his resignation in 2007, following the conviction of one of the newspaper's reporters in relation to illegal phone-hacking. Thats how I sort of see it really and thats how I see life. Andy Coulson, the former Downing Street Communications Director and News of the World editor, has given his first detailed interview about the scandal that ended, in 2014, with a spell in HMP. Ive never been through what youve been through, but a lot of people when they have a day or whatever, you think about other people who are worse off than you. The key to it, I think, with therapy is you have got to find the right person. I spent five years talking about it. Andy: My sentence, having been found guilty of the crime, was probably about right. Jane: Did you attempt to draw perspective from other sources? If resilience is genetic then I think Ive definitely benefitted in that regard. I dont have too many dark days any more but I do have the odd grey day, I think everybody does, for all sorts of reasons. I didnt know what was going to happen and I didnt know what I was going to find. It was between governors and there was a proper shortage of staff. Andy: Well it came very suddenly. What was the apex of your crisis, do you think? When you saw very young men like that in prison, now that your own boys are reaching past adulthood, did you, sort of, connect with them? That moment when I spoke to my lawyers from prison. There were elements of my crisis that were entirely self-inflicted. Andrew Edward Coulson (born 21 January 1968)[2][3] is an English journalist and political strategist. The judge actually criticised the timing of the statement and said he was unsure whether it was out of ignorance or deliberate. I was encouraged to stay but I just felt from a practical point of view, because I am of course a resigning recidivist, much in the same way as I felt when I was at the News of the World, how on Earth am I able to sit here and write a leader, criticising that outrage thing again, criticising a politician when Ive got a reporter sat in jail? Its not on my record. And, in fact, the last words from one of those prison officers to me as I was about to get on the bus were, Keep your head down, youll get through it, life moves on. Mar 2016 - Oct 20182 years 8 months. Because I read at one point that youd been pushed down the stairs. Monty was 12? Because then you know actually, its not just a matter of getting through this, Im into it all over again. And what I understood quite quickly is that theres two routes to violence in prison. [39], As the Conservative Party's director of communications, Coulson continued to be subjected to allegations that he was aware of the hacking of phones while serving as the editor of News of the World. His predecessors had had the highest level of vetting, as did his successor and (after his departure) his deputy. Jane: Between the jury verdicts at your trial, David issued an apology for hiring you and said it was wrong. I dont think its something that you sort of say right, great, Ive done that, thats finished. Rebekah Brooks, No 10'S former spin doctor Andy Coulson and three others appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court today. And my parents are grafters, that was always very clear. I had plenty of offers and I just didnt. I am very sorry for the mistakes that I made at the News of the World. Learn How rich is He in this year and how He spends money? On 21 November 2014, Coulson was released from prison having served less than five months of his 18-month prison sentence. And thats absolutely not how I feel. Andy: It was boiling hot and it was a glorious summer, as I said. Coulson was the editor of the News of the World from 2003 until his resignation in 2007, following the conviction of one of the newspaper's reporters in relation to illegal phone-hacking. That Id go from one to the other in custody, if you like. And thats just not where I am. Jane: Because it had been quite a high-profile trial. But Ive never done it in any detail other than, of course, over a very long period in a witness box in the Old Bailey. And I managed to get down just in time and before you know it youre off driving through the city and I just remember looking at the bright blue sky really. [44] And Clive Goodman, in a letter from 2007: "The practice was widely discussed in the daily editorial conference, until explicit reference to it was banned by the editor. Certainly, when you find yourself in crisis and thats also, more importantly, just not how I see it. The work ethic amongst us all is very clear. [1] They have three children. As a newspaper editor, its a weekly crisis, daily crisis when youre working on The Sun, which is of course where I spent most of my time, most of my career. What happens to you when you come there? [9][10][11][12], In June 2014 at the Old Bailey, Coulson was found guilty of a charge of conspiracy to intercept voicemails (phone-hacking). Jane: Did you worry that it would come across as self-serving? No one knew that at that stage. Andy: There were moments when I felt utter despair. Before Patrick's last year of High School he left . So, they made me an education orderly and I went and worked with a brilliant woman who runs the education programme at Hollesley Bay and I was effectively her teaching assistant, if you like. But more that, my conviction is spent now, its gone. Andy: Oh, quite a lot. There were a few of those who ran away from the gunfire. And suddenly youre sat in one of them. Because the truth is, for the nearly year that I was there, I loved it, Jane. Andy: Better than the alternative. Series 2. Jane: You dont really talk about yourself very much. So, when you came back after being found guilty and before going back to be sentenced, you had that time at home. [1][65], English journalist and political strategist, Conservative Party communications director, Downing Street Director of Communications. That must have felt weird, being the focus of the media storm? I was a pretty low profile, it didnt turn out that way, of course, but I was a pretty low-profile editor, at least I tried to be and thats absolutely how I saw the job as well when I went into Number 10. So, actually, often there are these little small acts of kindness in prison, he didnt have to do it but he let me go to the phone and call Eloise and say that this things out there, but just be assured its total rubbish. I knew nothing about it, obviously. And even more delighted that there was a whole shelf of Dickens because I love a bit of Dickens. Journalist and broadcaster Jane Moore asked the questions for Coulsons new podcast series, Crisis What Crisis? Its that judgement thing again, you know. Andy: Yeah, it is, it is hard. And share he has about Colton Underwood from the world of The Bachelor. I use a guy who lives up in Scotland, Ron, who is just outstanding and I still talk to him from time to time now. Suddenly youre on trial at the Old Bailey and youre hearing the word guilty; tell us about that moment. permanent tsb. For me and for Eloise, ask us honestly, was this the worst thing that ever happened to us? If you have a life sentence, if youve murdered someone, you will finish your sentence in a prison like Hollesley Bay. In 1988, he moved to The Sun, working with Piers Morgan on the showbiz column Bizarre. Andy Coulson (Andrew Edward Coulson) was born on 21 January, 1968, is a Journalist, newspaper editor. And Ive got to be honest with you, I think that is a change in me because as a newspaper editor, particularly, you are very judgemental. Andy: Yeah, there was a report online, I think, that said that and it was complete nonsense, it didnt happen. So I rang him and we had a conversation and that led me to say: Look, youve got plenty of friends in your life, you dont need any more friends, thats not what this is about, but if this is going to work we do need to be straight with each other with what you are trying to do here. I was really concerned. Jane: Another clich is that you never know what youve got until theres a danger that you might lose it, which must have been a very real possibility in terms of your marriage in your own head. Weve made a lot of cups of tea for journalists standing on the end of our drive over the years, quite happily. I have to say I managed to get to that point reasonably quickly and I ran it as a campaign. BirthName, Nickname, and Profession So first, let's take a look at some personal details of Andy, like name, nickname, and profession. Then before I knew it I was standing on the landing and being put into a holding cell and then they told me Youre going to Suffolk, going to a place called Hollesley Bay.' And I thought, this is just hopeless, Im his Director of Communications and Im learning things in the paper. Im with a bunch of other people who are in the same situation as me and Ive just got to make the best of it really. And keep the smile on my face and move myself and my family forward every day, which is exactly what we do, its exactly our attitude. So I actually had a little bit of time at home to be able to prepare, which I was very grateful for because that allowed me to talk to the kids and to talk to Eloise and get things sorted, get organised as best I could. Coulson, who now runs a successful strategy business, talks candidly and honestly about his regrets, resilience and recovery. He thankfully survived and is perfectly fit and well now, but it was touch and go for a while and ask me those moments, you know, when your son is going into an operating theatre, compare that moment with the moment of going through the green door that I described; there is no comparison. So, I spot the signs and I know what to do and I know how to kind of avoid it. [60][61], Coulson was to face a retrial, together with the News of the World's former royal editor Clive Goodman, after the jury failed to agree a verdict on two other charges of conspiring to cause misconduct in public office in relation to the alleged purchase of confidential royal phone directories in 2005 from a palace police officer. Andy Coulson, the British prime minister's former communications chief, has been arrested by detectives investigating allegations of phone hacking at the Sunday tabloid, the News of the World . Andy: Well, we did talk about it and wed already talked about it. This article is more than 8 years old Andy Coulson, the criminal who had David Cameron's confidence Former No 10 spin doctor is found guilty of hacking charge while Rebekah Brooks is cleared of. Because Id worked very hard at the News of the World, working weekends and god knows what else. Its constantly incoming and my job, in fact, was to manage those crises. His pay was 140,000, the highest paid special advisor. Thats why I love podcasting, actually, its that its not a formal interview process, its a conversation. He hired Dominic Mohan, who was later promoted to editor. Its appalling. [21], Coulson resigned on 26 January 2007 over the News of the World phone hacking affair which would several weeks later see the jailing for four months of the paper's Royal correspondent Clive Goodman. Andy: Their choice really. I think Ive been up and down that mountain and that I think is a good and useful thing for my clients. My biggest regret was the decision that I took to have my two oldest sons come and visit me in Belmarsh". Getty Images offers exclusive rights-ready and premium royalty-free analog, HD, and 4K video of the highest quality. In January, a former News of the World journalist told the trial that his phone hacking skills were the main reason Coulson had hired him. Business City Spy: PR Week unveils its top spinners of the year. But I didnt have that because I knew that there would be one, possibly two more trials when I came out of Belmarsh. Andy: Youve got a window next to you and I just sort of turned my back. "[45], A report aired on Channel 4's Dispatches in October included remarks made by an unnamed source, said to have been a former senior journalist at the News of the World who worked alongside Coulson. The CPS said that witnesses interviewed by Metropolitan Police including those who had previously made allegations through media outlets had not been willing to provide admissible evidence. Its proper drama. Thats what we have here and obviously for me Im going to say its an imperfect system, but Im certainly not arguing that it should have been done some other way. The way I choose to deal with it and the way Ive chosen to deal with it is be positive and go and build a business and employ some brilliant people, which I now do and go and work with a fantastic set of clients, which I do. Revelation: Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson (left, in September 2004) were having a secret affair for at least six years, the Old Bailey heard. And actually, I dont feel much right now at all, life is good. That was a good moment for us because we were then very clear that this was not about me becoming chums, this was about me being a professional advisor to him and him taking that advice seriously and the relationship on that basis went forward. Ex-spin doctor Andy Coulson found guilty of conspiracy to hack phones Phone hacking took place while he was the editor of the News of the World Police identified 4,000 possible victims of phone. How can I be the Director of Communications in Downing Street when Im on the front pages? When were your darkest days? Now, I dont recall seeing one of you. And one of the ways of doing that is making sure everyone is wearing the same clothes when they arrive. Jane: So, youre packing your bag. I suppose because the thing was so public and had been so long running, Ellie and I took the view that we werent going to try and attempt to hide any of it from them. Dont try and solve it all. I was an editor of the News of the World for four years. You take some advice. Im absolutely sure that Im a better advisor as a result of what happened. Andy: Yeah, definitely. That these prison sentences, you end up in a holiday-camp prison. And in prison, as I mentioned, there was that book ban and I could not have been more delighted on the day that I finally got into the library at Belmarsh. And its like eating rotten fruit. Jane: So, there came a point where you thought, OK, I dont know how long Im going to be here. Jane: Obviously, your boys came to see you there and you tried to keep it as jolly and normal as possible, but when they left that must have been hard. He was scheduled to stand trial in April 2015 but the trial was postponed to 11 May 2015 because of the general election. Therefore, the search process before you come in for a visit, as a visitor, is pretty unpleasant. So its just too easy, I think, either for him or for me to say, I wish it had never happened, because you make decisions in the moment. Jane: So, tell me, what was a typical day at Belmarsh? Jane: Well, talking of which, as a journalist, we also know the picture that everybody wants is of somebody in the prison van being taken away. [18] On 3 June 2015, he was cleared of those perjury charges, since, if he had lied, it would not have been relevant to the outcome. So even though Id spent eight and a half months in the Old Bailey in a trial, knowing that that was a possibility, sat in a dock for the large part, theres a padded green door on your left that you know goes to the cells and theres the exit on the right, although Id spent all that time wondering am I going to go left or right, when you hear the word guilty you know full well that youre going to be going left. Its an unnatural thing to do to relive your life and, by the way, if all you are doing is reliving your life through a negative prism, its a fundamentally unhealthy thing to do. It turned out that all of my research and all the advice was entirely wrong and so a lot of the stuff that I took in, I had a radio, I took some books, all of that was gone, stamps were gone. "[29][30], In July 2011 questions were raised about Coulson's security vetting at Number Ten. Thats why I resigned from the News of the World and then when I was in Downing Street, Im there thinking how on Earth can I do this job? Find professional Andy Coulson videos and stock footage available for license in film, television, advertising and corporate uses. Jane: We now know, obviously, that you came through all of that, you served your time, the Scottish situation went away. Jane: Do I get one of those for doing this? I mean, there were lots of theories at the time. And I made mistakes in my personal life as well, and so Ive never at any point felt why me? about it because thats just not how I feel. Jane: As you say, its high security for a reason, because there are some pretty serious criminals in there. [19], Coulson was portrayed by Andrew Bone in the 2015 Channel 4 television film Coalition.[63]. As director of communications for the Conservatives he does an excellent job in a proper, upright way at all times. [40] Cameron, though, defended Coulson on the morning of 9 July: "I believe in giving people a second chance. Youd get out for an hour and then youd be back in again and youd do anther 23 hours and it was boiling. In David Cameron: The Conservative-Liberal Democratic coalition government Andy Coulson, Cameron's communications chief, had already left that post in January of the same year in the wake of the growing evidence tying him to the scandal. "[31] According to Chris Bryant MP, senior officials working with Coulson believed that he had the same clearance level as his predecessor. And that visiting thing, the rule is if you kind of cross the line into the visit and your visitor doesnt turn up youre not allowed to leave and that can be brutal. Coulson is pictured leaving the court earlier. Coulson, 46, who also worked as director of . Youve got to be either kind of 200% enthusiastic about something or youve got to be outraged. And before I knew it, because its down underneath the Old Bailey where you get on the bus, you then go up a ramp and it was a gloriously sunny day, July the fourth, ironically enough, Independence Day 2014. Prosecutor Andrew Edis QC. I quite like the one-in-five theory; that out of five people that you meet, three of them will be indifferent, one will think that youre an absolute superstar and the other one will never want to look you in the face again. Theres a lot of emotion, theres a lot of different emotions but that is definitely the feature in prison. [32] It later emerged that he was still being paid by News International while working for the then opposition leader. I think he had people advising him at that stage, obviously. Where did the resilience come from, do you think, to deal with that? Its amazing. Nobody there wanted me to go. So thats why were doing this. Andy: I do, yeah. Jane: So, you pitch up at Category A prison HMP Belmarsh. Jane: I remember coming to see you with Eloise and the boys and you all sort of sit in a gymnasium, dont you? The paper was told to pay Driscoll 800,000. I think that the danger with this conversation, if Im brutally honest with you, as we sit here right at the start of it, is that it somehow comes off as woe is me. I thought I was due what everyone was due in that kind of situation. 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