And stations wouldnt be possible if elevated. Anyway: I think that lots of expansions where there is no ROW to just place cars on, instead could be put into service as light rail (granted there are no obstacles like narrow roads and triggered politicians who cause everything to stop working) could be a nice supplement to the subway (free transfers too!) Charlestown USA Outlet Mall (Utica) This old, abandoned, former mill site was once one of the first shopping centers to locate in the Mohawk Valley. The closest stations to Utica Avenue are: Utica Av/Beverly Rd is 115 yards away, 2 min walk. Checking schedules for the A and C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for Utica St. service. Adding another train to Queens Blvd is a problem. That already will cost millions, possibly billions. Williamsburg in comparison to a Bypass is a much lower priority, since the L is not operating anywhere near signalling capacity; upgrading the power supply gives you a bump from 21TPH to 26TPH, nearly a 25% increase in service, and building tail tracks and appropriate terminals also increases that number. Let's take a trip down memory lane to explain why. [14] The line was to be extended along Flatbush Avenue and Eastern Parkway to Buffalo Street as a four-track subway line, and then along East 98th Street and Livonia Avenue to New Lots Avenue as an elevated two-track line, with provisions for the addition of a third track. Meaning if the Livonia Yards are overcrowded and a train-related incident happens at Franklin;blocking off service to Manhattan, trains can run between New Lots and Flatbush and/or Kings Plaza and Flatbush. Despite this residents of southern and southeastern Brooklyn would continually oppose any plan that involved elevated trains (even extensions of the Nostrand Ave Line as an elevated were blocked). In fact Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by about 50%. The only relief valve I can see short of the billion+ solution is reverse-branching lower Utica so that some its runs can continue up Nostrand. Or just stay on your train. But that still requires 2nd Ave to be built first. Crescent sections of the Jamaica line, clearing most but not all of the messy Well, actually its curving away but Ave H avoid the curve and take you to it at Albany Ave. And from that point its all residential and there are no freight sidings. Rolling back to the more germane silliness, I think Ive sniffed out a problem with the proposed local (2, 3) and express (4, 5) split the lower cost workout will lead to. Well then what are we waiting for? It stands to reason, then, that the massive South 4th Subway with branches to Utica Ave and along Myrtle Ave was designed to replace the Broadway and Myrtle Ave Els as well. This final station is worth considering because even though half the catchment area is parkland and the Mill Basin canal the station would serve the popular Kings Plaza Mall and there is space for a modern bus terminal for better service around southeastern Brooklyn and to the Rockaways. Climbing the ramp to the entrance level reveals more windows and doors These doors provide access to the disused portion of the upper level mezzanine, which has steps leading to the disused portion of the intermediate level mezzanine (which in turn leads directly to the unfinished station). Switch the 3/4 so that the 3 still goes to New Lots Av, but the 4 will now go to Flatbush Av. street-side condemnation would be for the head-houses. The line was proposed to cut across town to Columbus Circle, one avenue block away. 4. The other spur would have led up Myrtle Ave. where the line would split again. A lower cost solution to your previous Though Id suggest building a peak direction track on Utica Similar to the 6 and 7 lines. [3] "Not a lot of people get to see this area," said Doug Nintzel with the . I often speak with other fantasy transit designers about Utica and the IND plan seems to be the favorite and for good reason. MTA Bus - B14/B17 - Eastern Pkwy & Utica Av. The Manhattan-bound platform has its metalwork painted in golden yellow and the tiles beneath the trim line in dark blue. The second plan would be far cheaper but would require that only local trains have access to Nostrand Ave while the express trains would split past the junction so that half would continue as locals and the other would run express. [10] The unfinished upper level station was to be built for a subway line down Utica Avenue as part of the IND Second System.[11]. 6. Existing abandoned portions: Part of a station for 6 tracks, with four island platforms. But what this plan does is allow for a new and better city to grow around the line rather than be divided by it. The 5 train doesnt run in Brooklyn on late nights and weekends. The 8th Ave Subway was designed to replace the 9th Ave El, the 6th Ave and 2nd Ave Subways to replace elevateds running above their avenues. And this angle within the station level might be improved if it were to be reworked for two tracks instead of four with no fresh excavation needed. They will have elevators or ramps for handicapped access. Not that it would do anything for tunnel though. on Jamaica Ave to burrow the Broadway El into Fulton Lines station. Between Myrtle-Broadway and Fulton St the line would down Stuyvesant Ave. No stations along this stretch were detailed by IND engineers but given typical station spacing one could guess that two stations would be needed, one between Lafayette and Greene Aves and another at Halsey St. The first instance I can find of a proposal for Utica comes from a NY Times article in 1913 where residents were debating the best route. Look at the ceiling from the open platform, and at the mezzanine area at the north end. The MTA would then lease the land as a way to bring in continued revenue and the new development would help pay for the construction. Lower track becomes less of a climb. B46 Utica and Eastern Parkway. Perhaps you are discounting the Fulton St. When the IRT built the Eastern Parkway Line between 1915 and 1918 they built into it a provision for a future branch down Utica Ave (the IRT, in fact, built its entire Brooklyn section with many provisions for future expansion that either never happened or ended up being built by a competing company). This is the level of transit that buses provide for a fraction of the cost. Reviving the Nassau loop will only gain low ridership. As part of Contract 3 of the agreement, between New York City and the IRT, the original subway opened by the IRT in 1904 to City Hall,[12] and extended to Atlantic Avenue in 1908,[13] was to be extended eastward into Brooklyn. In the 1929 plan, one set of tracks would have led down Stuyvesant Ave., crossing the IND Fulton St. Line at Utica Ave. where another shell station and some unused mezzanines live and continuing down Utica Ave. and to Marine Park. Its smaller for the same reason an Olds Runabout is smaller than a Model T: the technological limitations of the day. The station's other fare control area has two staircases going down to each platform, a crossover, part-time turnstile bank and customer assistance booth, high entry/exit turnstiles that provide full-time access to and from the station, and two staircases going up to either side of Fulton Street between Stuyvesant and Schenectady Avenues. south of 63rd V from Bypass to Utica via Williamsburg, 15 TPH each. Anyone? Oh shit I forgot I was playing with skip-stop. Located under Eastern Parkway near Utica Avenue in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, it is served by the 4 train at all times and the 3 train at all times except late nights. 1135 Eastern Parkway. W 34 St and 7th Ave, W 33 St and 7th Ave, W 32 St and 7th Ave. One island platform, two side platforms. tph, equal to 16 A Div. 3 trains dont go to Brooklyn late nights. Theres nothing stopping that since it runs at a lower frequency. Theres only four local stations and it could probably crawl through three of them in a skip-stop with the C. You were playing around with skip-stop on Nostrand; maybe itd make sense here. Make no little plans, Daniel Burnham is purported to have said, they have no magic to stir mens blood. Modern giant boring machines make drilling more cost effective and its common for all the tunneling to be complete years before the line can open, primarily because of stations. Top track level It would reduce the need for bus transfers. The subway itself would run straight down Utica Ave with potential stations at Empire Blvd, Linden Blvd-Church Ave and Clarendon Rd. This staircase leads up to a small mezzanine where there is a token booth and turnstiles. The station spacing was done to keep costs down. I have two comments. Past Clarendon Rd the line would split with two tracks peeling east to a new yard facility built along the LIRR Bay Ridge line (requiring land taking). will be as interesting and more reasonable than those from the genius Crown Heights Utica Avenue Station. I just disagree with a Worth St subway being the best choice, since unlike the Second Avenue tracks, the Eighth Av local does have capacity constraints in the railroad north direction (both CPW local and 53 St have two services each, which is about as much as you want to push on a pair of tracks before service gets too unreliable). The two street stairs here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway west of Utica Avenue. The upper level at Utica Ave station on the Fulton Line would be used but only half of the existing structure would be needed since the modern line would be two tracks. THE IRT IS 3/4 THE SIZE OF THE IND/BMT FOR A REASON. And reworking Lafayette/Atlantic and Montague is all extra card shuffling that wont help Utica Ave riders anymore when they could just take the IRT express AS IS and be done with it. Now, if this was built, the 2/3/4/5 will be able to run to either branchline from either direction. Same dilemma as if underground. I chose to believe that rerouting the B/D to Williamsburg opens up far more possibilities. These technological limitations were shortly overcome and the only IRT line that doesnt use part of this original line is the 7 which is limited by the Steinway Tunnel. I was gonna comment this on Build Transit Where Its Most Effective, Not Where Its Least Expensive but comments were closed. It wont serve all of Utica; just the portion that doesnt have parallel service on Nostrand. Trains are one of the oldest forms of transportation out there, which means abandoned depots are scattered all across the country. Theyll meet up down the road. And on what route? Well, maybe the few short runs can be extended but all the new runs have to be BWY7. Flatbush Av-Brooklyn College is 2338 yards away, 28 min walk. Building it to Water St requires all new infrastructure there and a new East River tunnel (which isnt needed) and with Nassau St located closer to the heart of the Financial District and with better transfer options (that Water St would not be able to provide) it seems obvious that its a better routing. B: I wouldnt worry much about curves coming into terminals. Eliminating the bottleneck and interlining will improve frequency at Franklin so the transfer wont take too long. A 2 track line would only require half the space, 45 feet and with 100ft lots this leaves room for an ingenious workaround. In 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since. The incident happened inside the Utica Avenue subway station in Brooklyn on Christmas Eve. N,R all times except late nights, W weekdays only, 5 all times except late nights,6. They must be pillar free for security. Subway, local and express station, ADA accessible. 2- rebuild the Eastern Pkwy Station so that there are provisions for the line to pass through. Thats right, build subways to validate els. station. If we are going to think outside the box, we ust consider the people who will be having trains running through their buildings while a stop is not even placed within walking distance. Renovations added looping maroon tile patterns at the mezzanine level, as well as the platform's floor pattern. Transfer the money (like it exists!) Small black tile captions reading "UTICA" in white lettering on a black background run below the trim line at regular intervals. An elevated extension known as Route No. South of Kings Highway, due to the aforementioned geological issues, the line would have to be elevated. Would it be possible to connect the Utica Avenue like with the Fulton Street line? Located under Eastern Parkway near Utica Avenue in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, it is served by the 4 train at all times and the 3 train at all times except late nights. A new station would therefore have to be built below the existing 3/4 Utica Ave station before continuing south. Eastern Py Utica Av. So feeding more traffic into LEX which is so crowded while it actually misses the work destinations for most of these new riders might not be the best way to go. The additional traffic warranting the fix will come Utica but you want the Utica service on the EPL express tracks which carry over to LEX. Before the renovation of this station in 1995, it was possible to see the unfinished station from the mezzanine. With IRT you are constrained slightly but smoothing out the Rogers Junction gives you more to work with and if Utica proves more popular than New Lots then you could run some special 4 trains down there at rush hour. The center of the station slopes down and there is a lowered ceiling compared to the rest of the station. It is actually located between Schenectady and Utica Avenues and the two exits lead to the middle of the block, several feet from the actual cross street. I-beams and could be outfitted as faades on older structures as they South 4 St Passenger service: Never completed. The victim was found. Between Avenue O and Fillmore St is an MTA bus maintenance facility which can be rebuilt to have a small yard on the roof. The center of the station spacing was done to keep costs down: of. Gon na comment this on Build transit where its Least Expensive but comments were closed Utica. 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